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This page (revision-56) was last changed on 25-Apr-2008 16:30 by Isonomia  

This page was created on 22-Feb-2007 09:04 by ChristophSauer

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Difference between version and

At line 348 added one line
Yes, I mean [[EscapeCharacterProposal]], sorry for ambiguity.
At line 359 added 94 lines
-- [[Radomir Dopieralski]], 2007-Mar-08
This isn't actually a bug in the diff engine, but a bug in the JSPWiki Creole filter. It did not correctly parse the nowiki close tag, so as a temporary workaround we moved the nowiki open and close lines to the end and it now renders fine. So, the problem is that when you look at version 16, you see a rendering error made by the Creole filter, but if you look at the wiki source code itself, you'll see that the diff does show exactly what changed in the source, even though the rendering looks quite different because of the JSPWiki Creole filter bug.
-- [[Chuck Smith]], 2007-Mar-08
Ah, thanks, I was afraid I missed some more changes that just appeared to be minor corrections. Sorry for the panic. I'm wondering if Creole can additionally emphasize the parts of lines that differ in the diff itself? Tracking a single-letter change in a long paragraph of text is certainly much better done by the computer than by a human being... Sorry about all the requests I make about the wiki itself, but if JSPWiki has such an option, could it be enabled?
-- [[Radomir Dopieralski]], 2007-Mar-08
Random line seen on IRC today:
23:38 < ##### > heh, I've never really mastered the escaping of caracters for find -exec :P
-- [[Radomir Dopieralski]], 2007-Mar-29
Very nice comic. And a nice way to play with the Creole image syntax as well. :)
-- [[Chuck Smith]], 2007-Apr-3
Is this NotNew? Has anyone of you ever checked if other wikis are using a similar concepts, and how they do it? It makes no sense to introduce new markup into the spec before this has been checked. I therefore reject any changes until you give me figures...
(and no, a single wiki engine to which the feature was added recently doesn't make it NotNew ;) )
-- [[Radomir Dopieralski]], 2007-Apr-10
Yes, the concept of escaping single characters with a single escape character is NotNew. Here is the most relevant material I've found by googling //wiki markup escape// or //wiki markup "escape character"// (I've stopped searching after a while, so the list is probably not exhaustive):
* [[http://blog.wordaligned.org/articles/2006/12/03/wiki-markup]]
* [[http://deplate.sourceforge.net/Markup.html]]
* [[http://www.gambasdoc.org/help/wiki]]
* [[http://mindprod.com/jgloss/wiki.html]]
* [[http://www.plainsaw.org/help.php]]
I swear I'm not related in any way to these sites!
-- [[YvesPiguet]], 2007-Apr-10
I was rather hoping to see some kind of a table with statistics of how different wiki engines implement this...
-- [[Radomir Dopieralski]], 2007-Apr-10
== 2007-Apr-17
I am currently working for [[DirkRiehle|Dirk Riehle]] at SAP. When I wanted to use the Creole markup language, I had some issues I couldn't figure out what the specification requires.
I will try to make it short and it would be great if you can me a reply if I am right or wrong
# If I want to print two bold asterisk in the wiki page, I cannot write {{{"** ** **"}}}, because the second asterisk-pair is already the closing tag? So it is intended to use the next (not escaped) tag to close the bold section? \\But I can't rely on the use of in-line nowiki {{{"** {{{**}}}}}} {{{**"}}} because this could render two monospaced, or maybe not monospaced asterisks (depends on the implementer)? Is there any other possibility at the moment?
# Creole uses CamelCaseWords for internal links (even without using the link tags {{{"[[...]]"}}})?! \\ If the page name has not this notation, then it's necessary to use the link tags {{{[[}}} and {{{]]}}} ? Can you prevent a Camel-Case-Word to be automatically transformed to a link?
If there is no possibility to escape (multiple) characters in Creole, I would tend to suggest an escape character or a not monospaced in-line nowiki (e.g. 4 curly brackets for not monospaced, and 3 curly brackets for the still useful monospaced in-line text). But that’s not the topic right now.
Thank you very much for your support!\\
-- Martin Junghans, 2007-Apr-17
Both are currently being rejected in [[Creole0.6Poll]]. I agree with you.
-- [[YvesPiguet]], 2007-Apr-17
Hi Martin,
# There are two proposals that try to address this issue, either the [[Require Space After Bullet Proposal]] or the [[Hyphen List Markup Proposal]]. So far there is no consensus which one to use.
# What wiki engine/creole renderer are you using? Creole does not define camel case. This wiki does use CamelCase, but it's because it uses [[Mixed Mode]]. There is however a [[Escape Character Proposal]]. This common character also would help wikis that allow camel case to escape camel case links.
You also might take a look at the [[Proportional Font Nowiki Proposal]]. As Yves said, we don't have agreed on them yet, so please read through those proposals and then give us your opinion on the [[Creole 0.6 Poll]], and tell Dirk that his vote is very much appreciated there, too ;-)
-- [[Christoph Sauer]], 2007-Apr-17
I hate to butt in, but how is the list markup related to the escaping of bold markup?
Another thing: can you really distinguish a monospace asterisk from a proportional one? I, for one, can't.
There is a hack that allows you to write double bold asterisk without making it monospace, but it's not intuitive and doesn't look good in the raw text: {{{** *{{{~}}}* **}}}
-- [[Radomir Dopieralski]], 2007-Apr-17
Hi Christoph,\\
I want to implement a own simple renderer using the Creole standard only. So I have to consider all these special cases and ambiguities. Thanks for all replies, now I know that the reason is not a weak specification, but has to be discussed for a future implementation. Thank you! I will state my point of views later in the proposal pages.
-- Martin Junghans, 2007-Apr-17
Ah, Radomir you are right. I was so in the discussion of that Creole 0.6 Poll that I really confused several bold markup characters with list/bold markup, sorry :-).
Yes, It has nothing to do with it. Martin, as you can see through the messed up bold layout here the Creole Page Filter installed on this wiki also has problems with it.
-- [[Christoph Sauer]], 2007-Apr-17
I have added a possibly relevant comment [[Talk.AddNoWikiEscapeProposal#section-Talk.AddNoWikiEscapeProposal-NowikiReally|here]] -- [DanieleC.], 2007-Jul-05
I tried implementing the PHP parser for creole and was not at all happy with the process. Anyway if there isn't already, there really has to be a mechanism to have a "hard" space. I tried '~ ' (on the assumption that an escape was like \" in php, but it was a long shot.
Version Date Modified Size Author Changes ... Change note
56 25-Apr-2008 16:30 26.657 kB Isonomia to previous
55 05-Jul-2007 13:27 26.373 kB DanieleC. to previous | to last
54 24-Apr-2007 20:27 26.215 kB ChristophSauer to previous | to last moved from talk: question about escaping
53 10-Apr-2007 20:25 22.625 kB to previous | to last um, EscapeCharacterComparison?
52 10-Apr-2007 15:47 22.467 kB YvesPiguet to previous | to last Yes, it's NotNew
51 10-Apr-2007 13:54 21.843 kB to previous | to last Is this NotNew
50 03-Apr-2007 11:34 21.438 kB to previous | to last escape comic
49 30-Mar-2007 00:06 21.265 kB RadomirDopieralski to previous | to last escaping hard to "master"
48 08-Mar-2007 11:58 21.087 kB RadomirDopieralski to previous | to last sorry for panic
47 08-Mar-2007 10:44 20.576 kB ChuckSmith to previous | to last "diff bug" actually "Creole filter bug"
46 08-Mar-2007 08:01 19.98 kB RadomirDopieralski to previous | to last between 16 and 17
45 08-Mar-2007 08:00 19.874 kB RadomirDopieralski to previous | to last 16 and 17
44 08-Mar-2007 07:07 19.516 kB ChristophSauer to previous | to last can you tell me the version numbers
43 07-Mar-2007 19:01 19.362 kB RadomirDopieralski to previous | to last wrong diff?
42 07-Mar-2007 11:08 18.968 kB YvesPiguet to previous | to last Reply
41 07-Mar-2007 10:33 17.939 kB RadomirDopieralski to previous | to last sarcasm, clarity, subscript
« This page (revision-56) was last changed on 25-Apr-2008 16:30 by Isonomia