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This page (revision-13) was last changed on 13-Apr-2007 22:55 by 77.128.29.49  

This page was created on 02-Apr-2007 12:02 by YvesPiguet

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At line 1 changed 5 lines
It seems to be against several goals of Creole. There is already
a markup similar to this proposal, less verbose, with end tags which
can be recognized easily, standard and very popular: XML. Since
Creole doesn't use single angle brackets, it would be easy to
mix both.
It seems to be against several goals of Creole. There is already a markup similar to this proposal, less verbose, with end tags which can be recognized easily, standard and very popular: XML. Since Creole doesn't use single angle brackets, it would be easy to mix both.
At line 7 changed 6 lines
We're soon going to have assigned a meaning to all double
punctuation signs, so Creole won't be much more complicated
than it is now. I'd suggest to reserve {{{$$}}} for LaTeX math, {{{__}}}
for underlined, {{{--}}} for deleted text and {{{++}}}
and {{{%%}}} for future uses (all optional), and we're done.
Both {{{!!}}} and {{{??}}} are too frequent in plain text to be safe.
We're soon going to have assigned a meaning to all double punctuation signs, so Creole won't be much more complicated
than it is now. I'd suggest to reserve {{{$$}}} for LaTeX math, {{{__}}} for underlined, {{{--}}} for deleted text and {{{++}}} and {{{%%}}} for future uses (all optional), and we're done. Both {{{!!}}} and {{{??}}} are too frequent in plain text to be safe.
At line 39 added 16 lines
I probably have expressed myself poorly, but I would like one more try. I think some of the response actually show my point: Yves is proposing a large number of double-punctuation signs, some of which would conflict with existing markup, or appear rather frequently in wiki content. This is the kind of extension that only works with new content, but introduces incompatibility with old content. And, sorry, no, you cannot simply use xhtml, //unless we start in Creole by specifying the all occurrence of single angle brackets in the content must be escaped//. People will discuss how to format their html pages on a wiki, so the advice: use "use <em>emphasis</em> for..." is content, not markup.
To rephrase my point: **Can we provide a good basis that can be used by wiki-engines to integrate the markup-features they desire to support?**
This is user-driven, not programmer-driven. Most people here seem to be programmers, so they think that monospace and perhaps code-highlighting is incredibly important. I don't care, but I whish that the Wiki engine may support their needs. For my biological users, italics in parts of a link or heading (formatting only the scientific organism name, being only part of the link or heading), and super- and subscript are incredibly important. Then we have underline, math, inserted, deleted, CSS-support. We already discussed in passing the need to define a non-breaking space. And on [[http://www.wikimatrix.org/syntax.php|wikimatrix]] I further find: Aligning text, Text indentation, and definition lists as further wiki-supported formatting. That is eleven more formatting commands than Creole currently supports. I cannot see why the need to support richer formatting than current Creole collides with the [[NotNew]] rule... Supporting more formatting than Creole 0.6 is indeed quite common.
My point is that //by some method// (which may be different than what the proposal illustrates) I believe it to be highly beneficial if the structure of Creole is such that after the first tier of frequently used formatting, being represented by very simple formatting commands, a second tier comes that is flexible enough to be used both for Creole internal purposes (I still hope for superscript/subscript...) and for the formatting extensions Wiki-software desires to support. The CSS support of JSPWiki is just one example, not the purpose of the proposal.
Realising that html will be discussed a lot on wikis, I proposed using a html-analogue to avoid the issues of having to escape each and every occurrence of a greater than/smaller than character (as you have to do on Wikis using xhtml markup for exactly the extensibility purpose, like TWiki).
However, if there is agreement to reserver simple greater/smaller sign as wiki-markup this would just as well serve the purpose of this proposal. Again, as (at least) TWiki and MediaWiki show, using extensible markup is [[NotNew]].
The proposal is about the structure or creole, not about using specific characters to achieve the extensibility. The Creole grammar structure that is proposed is an alternative to Yves proposal to add yet another n (I count 11 already!) double punctuation signs...
--[[Gregor Hagedorn]], 2007-Apr-04
Version Date Modified Size Author Changes ... Change note
13 13-Apr-2007 22:55 16.905 kB 77.128.29.49 to previous
12 13-Apr-2007 22:46 16.791 kB 77.128.29.49 to previous | to last
11 13-Apr-2007 22:45 16.791 kB 77.128.29.49 to previous | to last
10 11-Apr-2007 23:23 14.391 kB 85.221.141.46 to previous | to last all users would have to learn css
9 11-Apr-2007 22:43 11.36 kB Gregor Hagedorn to previous | to last chem etc. plugin not general enough
8 11-Apr-2007 10:42 10.522 kB RadomirDopieralski to previous | to last <>
7 11-Apr-2007 04:10 9.507 kB Gregor Hagedorn to previous | to last
6 05-Apr-2007 12:19 8.071 kB 85.221.141.46 to previous | to last advanced formatting
5 04-Apr-2007 23:24 5.855 kB Gregor Hagedorn to previous | to last Proposal misunderstood? Definitely NotNew!
4 03-Apr-2007 09:37 2.614 kB ChristophSauer to previous | to last seems not to be quite common, reject
3 03-Apr-2007 09:06 1.636 kB YvesPiguet to previous | to last Agree
2 03-Apr-2007 07:51 1.295 kB 85.221.141.46 to previous | to last -- is out :(
1 02-Apr-2007 12:02 0.693 kB YvesPiguet to last Why not XML?
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