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| [{table_of_contents title="contents"}] |
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| !!! Inline nowiki and monospace |
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| == Alinea? == |
| !!! Alinea? |
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| == well, alinea ! == |
| !! well, alinea ! |
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| ---- |
| ---- |
| !!! blank line = paragraph / paragraph_start character |
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| -- [[JohnMcClure]] |
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| {{{ |
| !! what does the user mean ? |
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| }}} |
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| !!! The 'single line problem' |
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| {{{ |
| !!! case of tables |
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| }}} |
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| !! semantics of blank lines |
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| {{{ |
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| }}} |
|
| -- [[JohnMcClure]] |
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| !! newlines are permitted in list items |
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| {{{ |
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| !! The door open for an explicit paragraph tag \\ user side again |
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| Denis, |
| Your statement that "//it doesn't do anything :-( |
| Which in not what a writer expects : *why* did s/he hit the key ?//" begs a response. Ignored intra-paragraph NLs |
| (a) makes entry of inline-lists' easier (as I am doing); |
| (b) makes text insertions and addendums MUCH easier; |
| (c) allows sentences to be separately entered; and |
| (d) eliminates common problems because NLs are truly invisible |
|
| Also, see [[Paragraphs And Line Breaks Reasoning]]... you really are suggesting a //return// to Creole 0.3, where NL = <br/>. But, Denis, you gotta accept the consensus already reached about this. |
|
| [[Paragraphs And Line Breaks Reasoning]] leaves the door open for an explicit paragraph tag, by saying "//No markup tags **should** be necessary to start a new paragraph.//" (emphasis added). |
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| There is no consensual prohibition of a tag for a paragraph.\\ |
| There is no consensual prohibition of a tag for a line.\\ |
| There is no consensual prohibition of a tag for a section.\\ |
| There is no consensual prohibition of a tag for a subpage.\\ |
| And so on.... |
|
| ---- |
|
| Thank you for these points. I have read and "processed" already all pages about this topic, I guess. I Know I support an already left aside choice. I don't mean to push for going back to early versions of Creole, which is the reason why I haven't published that ideas on the (talk) pages of this site dedicated to this feature. I know it would be vain and only possibly disturb the precious work you all are doing. Call it the rule of minimal pollution.\\ |
| This said, I am also a thinking beeing who wishes (a) to clarify (b) to express his ideas. This demands a place where they may be properly heard and launch relavant feedback. For this topic, the wikicreole site is /the/ place, no ? |
|
| Moreover, about wikis, I lie much more on the user side than on the technical one (I have very few competence in web programming), which may be positive. This whole process toward a wikitext standard lacks of user implication, if not of any user feedback. I guess Creole 1.0 would else be a bit different.\\ |
| To be nasty again : what do you/we think an author presses the return key for ? |
| The present answer in the Creole 1.0 spec is : |
| {{{ |
| For nothing. The user does not /mean/ anything ; anything relevant, |
| anything worth beeing solely respected or even taken as is into account. |
| At line 196 added 18 lines |
| (We know better than you what you mean, what you wish, what you need ? We know what is good for you.) |
| That's my feeling : it's not fair. It's a technocratic point of view and way of doing things. Even if your intention obviously is far from that. Anyway nearly the whole of the web is like that, even globally most of the computer industry ; especially in the field of open-source, until very recently. See for instance : |
| * [[http://www.actsofvolition.com/archive/2004/april/theriseof | Steven Garrity / The Rise of Interface Elegance in Open Source Software]] |
| * [[http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cups-horror.html | ES Raymond / The Luxury of Ignorance: An Open-Source Horror Story]] |
| * [[http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/articles/why_care | |
| Why GNOME Hackers Should Care about Usability]] |
| * See also the [[http://openusability.org/ | open usability project]] |
| * and the whole [[http://humanized.com/ | site of Humanized]] |
|
| Now, please, don't take it bad, don't take it for you. I often tend to express my views with quite some guts in and few gentleness (especially compared to the anglo-saxon way). It lies all on my side (still, some people love it !). Conversely, the fact that I spend so much time & energy with your "baby" shows how high I prize the intentions as well as the product. (Well, for sure, you're free not to care about that detail.)\\ |
| denis. --[[spir]] -- (denis dot spir at free dot fr) |
|
| ---- |
| Denis, respectfully I couldn't disagree more with your view that useability has not been important to Creole syntax design; Creole (and Wikis, in general) is a direct response to a lack of useability permeating X/HTML markup... As evidence, X/HTML editors after many years of trying, have still not gained much traction in the industry. |
| \\--[[John McClure]] |
| ---- |
| I answer you on this topic (also as a summary of my opinion on newline and user side) at [[TheUserSNewline]] |
| \\Salutation, Denis --[[spir]] |
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