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This page (revision-203) was last changed on 23-Sep-2008 15:55 by YvesPiguet  

This page was created on 02-Sep-2006 18:22 by 82.48.229.92

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== 2007-Apr-17
Hi,
I am currently working for [[DirkRiehle|Dirk Riehle]] at SAP. When I wanted to use the Creole markup language, I had some issues I couldn't figure out what the specification requires.
I will try to make it short and it would be great if you can me a reply if I am right or wrong
== 2008-Sep-23
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# If I want to print two bold asterisk in the wiki page, I cannot write {{{"** ** **"}}}, because the second asterisk-pair is already the closing tag? So it is intended to use the next (not escaped) tag to close the bold section? \\But I can't rely on the use of in-line nowiki {{{"** {{{**}}}}}} {{{**"}}} because this could render two monospaced, or maybe not monospaced asterisks (depends on the implementer)? Is there any other possibility at the moment?
# Creole uses CamelCaseWords for internal links (even without using the link tags {{{"[[...]]"}}})?! \\ If the page name has not this notation, then it's necessary to use the link tags {{{[[}}} and {{{]]}}} ? Can you prevent a Camel-Case-Word to be automatically transformed to a link?
May I suggest to all contributors to discussion pages to sign with their name **and the date**, so that it's clear that the discussion is post-Creole 1.0? Thanks!
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If there is no possibility to escape (multiple) characters in Creole, I would tend to suggest an escape character or a not monospaced in-line nowiki (e.g. 4 curly brackets for not monospaced, and 3 curly brackets for the still useful monospaced in-line text). But that’s not the topic right now.
-- [[YvesPiguet]]
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Thank you very much for your support!\\
-- Martin Junghans, 2007-Apr-17
== 2008-Apr-25 ==
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Both are currently being rejected in [[Creole0.6Poll]]. I agree with you.
I suggest that Creole also specify markup for monospace text. Unlike {{{text}}}, the content
would be processed as other markup. XHTML would be <code>text</code>.
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-- [[YvesPiguet]], 2007-Apr-17
One possibility would be {{{[[[text]]]}}} although that may be ambiguous with {{{[[wikiname]]}}}
Another possibility would be {{{:::text:::}}}
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Hi Martin,
# There are two proposals that try to address this issue, either the [[Require Space After Bullet Proposal]] or the [[Hyphen List Markup Proposal]]. So far there is no consensus which one to use.
# What wiki engine/creole renderer are you using? Creole does not define camel case. This wiki does use CamelCase, but it's because it uses [[Mixed Mode]]. There is however a [[Escape Character Proposal]]. This common character also would help wikis that allow camel case to escape camel case links.
For example, {{{:::monospace text with bold and italic and [[Proposals|links]]:::}}}
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You also might take a look at the [[Proportional Font Nowiki Proposal]]. As Yves said, we don't have agreed on them yet, so please read through those proposals and then give us your opinion on the [[Creole 0.6 Poll]], and tell Dirk that his vote is very much appreciated there, too ;-)
-- [[DavidBiesack]], 2008-Apr-25
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-- [[Christoph Sauer]], 2007-Apr-17
This is covered on the [[Additions]] page. The proposal is to use ##text to monospace##.
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I hate to butt in, but how is the list markup related to the escaping of bold markup?
-- [[StephenDay]], 2008-Apr-25
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Another thing: can you really distinguish a monospace asterisk from a proportional one? I, for one, can't.
== 2008-Feb-27
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There is a hack that allows you to write double bold asterisk without making it monospace, but it's not intuitive and doesn't look good in the raw text: {{{** *{{{~}}}* **}}}
Strangely, the Creole 1.0 Test case does not get formatted as
expected in the Creole Sandbox.
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-- [[Radomir Dopieralski]], 2007-Apr-17
For example, spaces in front of list items are not allowed, just try
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**
Hi Christoph,\\
I want to implement a own simple renderer using the Creole standard only. So I have to consider all these special cases and ambiguities. Thanks for all replies, now I know that the reason is not a weak specification, but has to be discussed for a future implementation. Thank you! I will state my point of views later in the proposal pages.\\
-- Martin Junghans, 2007-Apr-17
**
{{{
* list item one
** sub item
* list item two according to the spec, this should be a new list item at the same level as list item one
and this should still be part of list item two
}}}
-- 132.199.240.207
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== 2007-Apr-14
I'm not sure where to put this, so I'll mention it here. So far we have focussed on making Creole easy for the users to write in and relatively easy to parse (mainly convert from Creole to HTML and other markups). But there is also a second aspect, one that also is an indication of how clear and well defined the language is: the possibility and ease of converting **to** Creole from various popular markups. This will be needed to migrate wikis. It will be needed for wiki engines that use WYSIWYG editors. It's also a good test on how well defined and streamlined the markup is. Note that this doesn't mean that Creole should have **all** features that HTML offers, of course.
wikicreole.org doesn't implement Creole 1.0 yet. Please don't try to reproduce its behavior in your own implementation...
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-- [[Radomir Dopieralski]], 2007-Apr-14
-- [[YvesPiguet]], 2008-Feb-27
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Escape characters will help there (see [[Nyctergatis]] sandbox with Creole output).
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== 2008-Feb-22
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-- [[YvesPiguet]], 2007-Apr-14
The links to talk pages seem to have disappeared?
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Not if they use "heuristics" or come together with insane markup -- then you'd have to escape practically every "hot" character, making the result totally unreadable for humans.
I don't know what you mean, do you mean the Discussion Tabs?. I can see them, has anyone else the same problem?
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-- [[Radomir Dopieralski]], 2007-Apr-14
Test: [[Talk.Talk]] [[Talk.Talk|Link to Talk]]
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That's definitively //not// what I want. NME could probably be smarter for its Creole output, but using nowiki instead of escape char is //much// worse.
-- [[ChristophSauer]], 2008-Feb-25 13:58 (CET)
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-- [[YvesPiguet]], 2007-4-14
It's only visible when the user is logged in.
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== 2007-04-04
I like pie, but I'm a little concerned about the sampling of wiki engines used to make those charts. I noticed that every chart uses a different set of wiki engines to compare against -- what are the rules of choosing them? Shouldn't the sample set be uniform?
-- [[RadomirDopieralski]], 2008-Mar-01
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I started making the [[No Wiki Markup Comparison]] and I understand perfectly how hard it is to collect information about markup on wikis -- that's why I'm listing the engines that are on [[WikiMatrix]], but that I failed to collect information about (they lack documentation, their site is down or otherwise unusable, they only use a WYSIWYG editor).
== 2008-Jan-12
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I **know** that the collected statistics are not biased on purpose and that it's technical and/or organisational difficulties that rule the choice of engines, but at the same time I think we should play it safe and don't lie when we don't have full info.
Though I have not yet been involved in this project, I took the liberty to create a Wikipedia entry [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creole_(markup)]] Hope nobody minds. And didn't know where else to put this info.
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-- [[Radomir Dopieralski]], 2007-Apr-04
-- [[TobiasSchaechtelin]], 2008-Jan-12
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Thanks Radomir. Yes, the charts should be uniform. And if it is impossible for some reason (e.g. because some engines don't support some markup) there should be at least an explanation why the charts are not uniform. Chuck, could you add this please?
Certainly nobody minds here :). And this is the right place to put that info. Welcome Tobias and thanks for the entry in Wikipedia!
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-- [[Christoph Sauer]], 2007-Apr-10
-- [[ChristophSauer]], 2008-Jan-13 10:27 (CET)
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== 2007-02-25
Yes, thanks for the article. I hope it stays up. :)
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[[Gregor Hagedorn]] I found this resource today and looked through it, being a content rather than system person. I like the ideas and hope this wins more support. I do not understand what is intended with Placeholder on [[Creole 0.5]], please elaborate. I wrote [[Levels of Interoperability]], please someone link it in - or ignore if out of scope - I cannot find a good parent place. I wrote a list of some markup wishes and comments on my [[GregorHagedorn|personal page]].
-- [[ChuckSmith]], 2008-Jan-13 12:03 (CET)
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Yes, very good initiative, thanks!
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//Including Creole in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightweight_markup_language could be the next step?// : yes, I think the more links, the more likely the page is going to stay and be found.
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== 2007-02-22
[[Christoph Sauer]] Dear creole parser developers. We have proposed a [[HyphenListMarkupProposal]]. I know that it is quite yet another change, but I think it's crucial. Please read through it carefully before you rant at me, because that was Chucks first response as well ;). I consider this as an important decision towards a Creole version 1.0. If we have sorted this out I feel pretty much that we are through.
--[[YvesPiguet]], 2008-Jan-14
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My personal todolist/whishlist towards a Version 1.0
Thanks for the warm welcome. I added Creole to [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightweight_markup_language]] and did some work on [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikitext]], which is the main article for wiki markup. You're welcome to revise it, since I might have missed some important points there. I will add some more cross references on the German and English Wikipedia - maybe there are other people who could do so for other languages?
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* getting through the [[HyphenListMarkupProposal]] discussion.
* general escape character (clarify usage of spaces before elements), see [[Escape Character Proposal]]
* clarify the usage of placeholder, discuss separate markup for placeholder and plugins/extensions/macros (term is engine specific) see confusion in [[Remove Placeholder Proposal]].
-- [[TobiasSchaechtelin]], 2008-Jan-15 01:02 (CET)
== 2007-Dec-17
Tired of fighting with cats. Really tired. Can't get through. If this one succeeds it's a miracle.
Is there way to communicate with site's team other than through the cats? Takes too much time to pass them.
[[Engines]] page is spoiled and I can't restore it because of cats.
-- YaroslavStavnichiy
You need to e-mail ChristophSauer, he's got the backdoor keys. I'm working on a synchronized backup wiki on a different engine (Creole makes it possible), but it goes slowly.
-- RadomirDopieralski
Sorry for the inconvenience, Yaroslav and others. I disabled the captcha again. I hope we will handle the spam without it, the cats are anyway not working like expected. I just checked in fixes for the Creole Filter into the JSPWiki trunk (JSPWiki 2.6) and will start next year to port our template to JSPWiki 2.6. Hope the switch to the new version will then solve our spam problems.
-- [[ChristophSauer]], 2007-Dez-19 15:16 (CET)
== 2007-Nov-28
You should discard edits where the main article hasn't been changed at all; they serve only
to put spam in the subject field.
-- [[YvesPiguet]]
Actually i should fix that bug by installing the new version of JSPWiki. It's on my looong list...
-- [[ChristophSauer]], 2007-Nov-29 11:06 (CET)
== 2007-Nov-20
Server is up again. After 5 years of duty our central switch died yesterday. RIP.
-- [[ChristophSauer]], 2007-Nov-20 14:01 (CET)
== 2007-Nov-18
I wonder if we could call any of the implementations a ReferenceImplementation? If not, what would have to be added to the existing ones? -- RadomirDopieralski
The question is in what programming language should the reference implementation be? I don't want to give the impression that we have a bias for a particular "religion".
-- [[ChristophSauer]], 2007-Nov-18 07:28 (CET)
== 2007-Oct-28
The captcha is not working. When I submit the cats it just goes back to the edit page. The only reason I can add this is because the capcha never kicked in.
-- Stephen Day
== 2007-Oct-15
I've added a patch (backport from a current 2.5 beta feature, thanks to Janne) that enables captcha, so you might have to select kittens ;). Currently it seems that it does not save your edit even if you identify the captcha corrently, but at least it does not lock you out, I also enabled Akismet again...
-- [[Christoph Sauer]], 2007-Okt-15 19:04 (CEST)
== 2007-Oct-12
It's been very quite since Christoph tightened the wiki access. But since there had already been less useful
edits since the release of Creole 1.0, it's hard to say if potential editors find the access too difficult, if everyone
finds Creole 1.0 perfect, or if everybody gave up...
Could we have a new irc meeting to get an idea of how Creole is deployed?
-- [[YvesPiguet]]
I just opened it again. Yes lets have one this week.
-- [[Christoph Sauer]], 2007-Okt-15 12:07 (CEST)
== 2007-Sep-27
Yesterday we had a spambot attack. The attacker used multiple IP's and created hundreds of accounts, and of course spamed alot of pages. It seemed to be a general attack against JSPWiki installations. I don't know yet how to protect against this, other than locking the page down, only allowing edits from accounts I gave edit permissions. I will give every account editor rights, that drops me a note and therefore proofs to me that he is not a stupid script. So if you have something important to say, just drop me a note and I'll give you editor rights.
Sorry for the inconvenience, I'll open this wiki again as soon as I have a appropriate patch to protect against this stupidity. For now it's more important that everyone can read the stable spec without spam.
-- [[ChristophSauer]], 2007-Sep-27 13:26 (CEST)
It seems to be completely locked if you haven't registered. Previously, I was recognized even if I wasn't authenticated (I think that at the beginning of 2007, I had to authenticate to have my contributions properly attributed); now I'm redirected to the login page until I've entered my password, even before trying to edit anything.
Shouldn't this wiki be read-only for unregistered visitors?
-- [[YvesPiguet]], 2007-Sep-28
Correction: I've tried from another computer (a virtual one actually), and I can read pages. So the problem exists only when my authentification has expired (not important).
-- [[YvesPiguet]], 2007-Sep-28
Yes, try to view the page from a browser that does not remember you (by cookie), you should be able to view the pages. The strange thing is that as soon as you have logged in, JSPWiki 2.4 requires you to log in, even if one set the policy to give view rights to everybody. If you entered a wrong login, JSPWiki will show you the rejected message, but if you continue, you will be able to view the pages (like expected). This only happens in this current configuration where you grant view rights to all, and edit rights only to users which where granted a special role. This seems to be a bug in JSPWiki.
--Christoph
No problem, that's a minor issue compared to the permanent spam and vandalism threat. Thanks.
Version Date Modified Size Author Changes ... Change note
203 23-Sep-2008 15:55 8.533 kB YvesPiguet to previous Dates in discussion pages please!
202 03-Jun-2008 13:21 8.332 kB 60.49.238.66 to previous | to last
201 25-Apr-2008 18:07 8.582 kB StephenDay to previous | to last answer
« This page (revision-203) was last changed on 23-Sep-2008 15:55 by YvesPiguet