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We just need to remember to change it in 0.4. I think, that explicitly writing some rules about how to modify the specs until they are final might improve our workflow. Any ideas? I have one: |
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Just edit the spec, providing an explanation for the changes in the Talk page -- at least for such trivial things as wording and exact examples. Of course, changes in actual markup should be discussed on the relevant [Elements] page first. |
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What do everyone think? Putting it like that will make people a little less reluctant to help. It's a wiki, after all -- be bold. |
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-- RadomirDopieralski, 2006-12-20 |
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Things that make parsers more complicated |
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One should be able to use regular expressions for transforming Creole to other formats. The following things make this a lot harder: |
* The pipe inside links clashes with the table syntax. Links inside tables become nasty to handle with regular expressions. |
* The double slash for italics clashes with free-standing URIs. The exceptions are awkward and arbitrary: What about https? This markup will cause problems whenever one writes about anything containing URI-like data, just like it is painful to write about Java classes if a wiki relies on camel case for internal links. ''Anything'' else is OK, IMHO. For example: double tilde is reminiscent of using squiggly underlines for marking up italics in handwriting and does not clash with anything. |
* Why expressly forbid markup in headlines? Couldn't it be left unspecified? |
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Other than that, I like the simplicity of the standard and love the rationale boxes you have added to the right. |
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-- AxelRauschmayer, 2006-12-22 |
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Quoting Axel: ''The double slash for italics clashes with free-standing URIs. ... This markup will cause problems whenever one writes about anything containing URI-like data .. double tilde is reminiscent of using squiggly underlines for marking up italics in handwriting and does not clash with anything.'' |
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When i think that we may need a forced line brak syntax in 0.4, where i would prefer double backslash, the current syntax for italics is making the wikitext even more confusing: Having slashes and backslashes for URI's Italics and linebraks. I wonder if anybody would reject chainging the syntax for italics again? So Axel - yes i would prefer double tildes for italics as well. |
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-- ChristophSauer, 2006-12-23 |
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Double slash does not clash with URIs. In URIs, the proper delimiter to search for is "://", not "//". If your parser cannot cope with that, I'm not sure if you should be writing a wiki engine in the first place... ;-). However, I have no objection to using ticks. |
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Double backslash collides with Windows UNC paths, so it might not be a good idea. Unless, of course, the sequence is {{{\\\n}}}. But really, you don't need forced linebreak, unless you want to have tables, too. And I'm still not at all convinced that tables are a good idea to support - you can already simulate them with preformatted text. |
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-- JanneJalkanen, 2006-12-24 |
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* Since a table must be alone on its own line (just like the lists), you can just search for "{{{^\s*|}}}" instead of "{{{|}}}". I think we can disallow breaking the line inside |
links just before the "|" to be absolutely sure. I have nothing against using double pipes though -- that'd go well with the rule of using at least double characters for markup. Personally when I absoultely need to put a table into wiki page, I use some CSV plugin anyways :). |
* I'm fighting for making the newlines ignored, like in 99% of wiki markups -- we will need forced newline _then_ (of course I might as well fail miserably). |
* Shoudn't things like variable names, commands and file paths be enclosed in "{{ { }}}" anyways? |
* I personally don't mind changing the "italics" markup to something more popular, that doesn't clash with existing markups too much. Looking at the wikimatrix comparison, I see that 15 wiki engines use slashes for italics, 3 use tildes and 7 use underscores. Most of them use the single quote (tick) character, of course, as this is c2 and usemod inheritance, but I'm afraid that using ticks is not really a wise decission. Now, lets look at the conflicts. Underscore is used in 8 wikis for bold (another form of emphasis), in 23 wikis for underline (yet another form of emphasis), in one wiki for monospace and in one wiki for subscript. The tilde is used for monospace in one wiki, for strike in two wikis and for subscript in 6 wikis, plus it is often used for signature. Slashes are, surprisingly, never used for anything else than italics. |
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Shall we continue on ChangeItalicsMarkupProposal? |
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RadomirDopieralski, 2006-12-28 |
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!Placeholder |
The comment box associated with Placeholder states "...This was mainly developed due to MediaWiki's extensive use of special characters making it practically impossible to implement Mixed Creole mode." This is incorrect, MediaWiki Creole mixed mode is perfectly possible as my demonstrator at: |
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# http://www.martinswiki.com/creoledemo.html#testCreoleMixedWithMediaWikiFormat |
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shows. Two Creole MediaWiki collisions need to be removed to allow more complete mixed mode, namely the use of {{..}} for images which collides with MediaWiki templates and the use of {{{..}}} for preformatted text which collides with MediaWiki template parameters. See [Creole Markup Collision Analysis]. |
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-- MartinBudden, 2006-12-28 |