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This page (revision-30) was last changed on 26-Sep-2007 09:31 by ChuckSmith  

This page was created on 10-Dec-2006 04:33 by null

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At line 187 added 42 lines
Things that make parsers more complicated
One should be able to use regular expressions for transforming Creole to other formats. The following things make this a lot harder:
* The pipe inside links clashes with the table syntax. Links inside tables become nasty to handle with regular expressions.
* The double slash for italics clashes with free-standing URIs. The exceptions are awkward and arbitrary: What about https? This markup will cause problems whenever one writes about anything containing URI-like data, just like it is painful to write about Java classes if a wiki relies on camel case for internal links. ''Anything'' else is OK, IMHO. For example: double tilde is reminiscent of using squiggly underlines for marking up italics in handwriting and does not clash with anything.
* Why expressly forbid markup in headlines? Couldn't it be left unspecified?
Other than that, I like the simplicity of the standard and love the rationale boxes you have added to the right.
-- AxelRauschmayer, 2006-12-22
Quoting Axel: ''The double slash for italics clashes with free-standing URIs. ... This markup will cause problems whenever one writes about anything containing URI-like data .. double tilde is reminiscent of using squiggly underlines for marking up italics in handwriting and does not clash with anything.''
When i think that we may need a forced line brak syntax in 0.4, where i would prefer double backslash, the current syntax for italics is making the wikitext even more confusing: Having slashes and backslashes for URI's Italics and linebraks. I wonder if anybody would reject chainging the syntax for italics again? So Axel - yes i would prefer double tildes for italics as well.
-- ChristophSauer, 2006-12-23
Double slash does not clash with URIs. In URIs, the proper delimiter to search for is "://", not "//". If your parser cannot cope with that, I'm not sure if you should be writing a wiki engine in the first place... ;-). However, I have no objection to using ticks.
Double backslash collides with Windows UNC paths, so it might not be a good idea. Unless, of course, the sequence is {{{\\\n}}}. But really, you don't need forced linebreak, unless you want to have tables, too. And I'm still not at all convinced that tables are a good idea to support - you can already simulate them with preformatted text.
-- JanneJalkanen, 2006-12-24
* Since a table must be alone on its own line (just like the lists), you can just search for "{{{^\s*|}}}" instead of "{{{|}}}". I think we can disallow breaking the line inside
links just before the "|" to be absolutely sure. I have nothing against using double pipes though -- that'd go well with the rule of using at least double characters for markup. Personally when I absoultely need to put a table into wiki page, I use some CSV plugin anyways :).
* I'm fighting for making the newlines ignored, like in 99% of wiki markups -- we will need forced newline _then_ (of course I might as well fail miserably).
* Shoudn't things like variable names, commands and file paths be enclosed in "{{ { }}}" anyways?
* I personally don't mind changing the "italics" markup to something more popular, that doesn't clash with existing markups too much. Looking at the wikimatrix comparison, I see that 15 wiki engines use slashes for italics, 3 use tildes and 7 use underscores. Most of them use the single quote (tick) character, of course, as this is c2 and usemod inheritance, but I'm afraid that using ticks is not really a wise decission. Now, lets look at the conflicts. Underscore is used in 8 wikis for bold (another form of emphasis), in 23 wikis for underline (yet another form of emphasis), in one wiki for monospace and in one wiki for subscript. The tilde is used for monospace in one wiki, for strike in two wikis and for subscript in 6 wikis, plus it is often used for signature. Slashes are, surprisingly, never used for anything else than italics.
Shall we continue on ChangeItalicsMarkupProposal?
RadomirDopieralski, 2006-12-28
The comment box associated with Placeholder states "...This was mainly developed due to MediaWiki's extensive use of special characters making it practically impossible to implement Mixed Creole mode." This is incorrect, MediaWiki Creole mixed mode is perfectly possible as my demonstrator at:
# http://www.martinswiki.com/creoledemo.html#testCreoleMixedWithMediaWikiFormat
shows. Two Creole MediaWiki collisions need to be removed to allow more complete mixed mode, namely the use of {{..}} for images which collides with MediaWiki templates and the use of {{{..}}} for preformatted text which collides with MediaWiki template parameters. See [Creole Markup Collision Analysis].
-- MartinBudden, 2006-12-28
Version Date Modified Size Author Changes ... Change note
30 26-Sep-2007 09:31 15.778 kB ChuckSmith to previous restore
29 26-Sep-2007 01:09 15.789 kB to previous | to last
28 28-Dec-2006 22:32 15.778 kB MartinBudden to previous | to last
27 28-Dec-2006 00:16 15.014 kB RadomirDopieralski to previous | to last rant rant rant :)
26 24-Dec-2006 10:15 13.362 kB to previous | to last
25 23-Dec-2006 18:25 12.712 kB Christoph to previous | to last respond to Axel
24 22-Dec-2006 22:34 11.986 kB to previous | to last
23 20-Dec-2006 03:06 10.958 kB RadomirDopieralski to previous | to last
22 20-Dec-2006 01:48 10.35 kB MarkWharton to previous | to last too late for table headings
21 17-Dec-2006 02:00 9.922 kB null to previous | to last
« This page (revision-30) was last changed on 26-Sep-2007 09:31 by ChuckSmith